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| == Discussion to move this forward as an actual project == | | == Discussion to move this forward as an actual project == |
| * Can we start by somehow archiving all the discussion that takes place further down? [[User:Gmjhowe|Gmjhowe]] ([[User talk:Gmjhowe|talk]]) 08:00, 21 January 2013 (EST) | | * Can we start by somehow archiving all the discussion that takes place further down? [[User:Gmjhowe|Gmjhowe]] ([[User talk:Gmjhowe|talk]]) 08:00, 21 January 2013 (EST) |
| * Yes, just blank it - it'll be stored in the history [[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 08:25, 21 January 2013 (EST) | | ** Yes, just blank it - it'll be stored in the history [[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 08:25, 21 January 2013 (EST) |
| | | ** Ok, removed everything, left in the 'thumbs up' bit as it has some good starting points in it [[User:Gmjhowe|Gmjhowe]] ([[User talk:Gmjhowe|talk]]) 08:38, 21 January 2013 (EST) |
| == Strong Objections ==
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| '''It encourages attention-seeking behaviour''' - The lights (that draw attention to people) increase the visibility of people who drop-in regularly, whether they come to do anything or not. Some people may find themselves coming to the space more often just to make themselves seen (we've already got a slight problem of people who like attention distracting other members who are trying to concentrate on projects). '''Small changes to a space can have a big affect on how people behave!'''
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| '''It reinforces feelings of social exclusion''' - A wall of white male faces is inevitable, at least in the short term, and this will evoke feelings of exclusion. To have a diverse community, we need to make people feel they belong, and a Wall of Faces is unhelpful here.
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| '''It contributes to an ego-rich environment''' - Where people project their egos into the space, and pat themselves on the back for doing it in an elaborate way.
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| '''It is not appropriate for our environment''' - A wall of mugshots is typical on a school, university, or 'rugby club' wall. The hackspace should appeal to people who want to get away from the conventions of institutions like this.
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| '''You already know this Wall of Faces will upset some regular users of the hackspace''' - These objections have already been expressed for a long time, so it's not clear why these elaborate (and apparently pointless) plans have been made. Disputes like this are sapping energy from more worthwhile projects.
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| :: No, no, and no! These objections may have been expressed but that doesn't mean that everyone will agree. There is nothing wrong with elaborate and pointless plans and there is no energy being sapped from more worthwhile projects (otherwise we'd all be concentrating on, say, curing cancer would we not?) --[[User:Msemtd|Michael Erskine]] 08:21, 4 April 2012 (EST)
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| ::: These comments should be on the "discussion" page. --[[User:Dominic|Dominic]] 08:53, 4 April 2012 (EST)
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| == Strong objections to your strong objections ==
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| ''' I would think it should be acceptable to opt out of having ones picture placed here, in fact I'd be pleased to see avatars or logos of people, or even just their names. This *could* point to their twitter name or whatever.
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| ''' Why do we get bogged down like this, NOT doing stuff is rubbish. This is a permissive group, it feels like the worst kind of nanny state sometimes.
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| ''' I have never seen a wall of "mug shots" on anyone wall ever... what rubbish. I DO recall that the Thunderbirds and Hogwarts has pictures on the wall! How cool!!!
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| ''' We really DO need to try harder to advertise the Hackspace to a wide and diverse range of people, however I do not feel that the diversity of the group is ONLY defined by gender and skin colour (or obvious physical differences) why can't we continue to be naïve and just enjoy making stuff… this is pictures that light up, it’s not a knife a bomb or a gun. This doesn’t kill babies.
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| --[[User:Dominic|Dominic]] 08:31, 4 April 2012 (EST)
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| == Some notes on strong objections and strong objections to strong objections ==
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| I think it's important that being on it is entirely optional, and there's no sense of peer pressure to buy a kit and put yourself up there - in *any* form; faces or twitter names or whatever. This board should be entirely an opt-in thing --[[User:Davidhayward|Davidhayward]] 09:26, 4 April 2012 (EST)
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| I am probably not going to put myself up on this board, but it doesn't bother me in the least that it will be there or that other people want to be on it. It bothers me to see so much stuff being fought on grounds of everyday politics and ideals. I say that with a good understanding of anarchy too, not the mistaken belief that it's functionally identical to chaos --[[User:Davidhayward|Davidhayward]] 09:26, 4 April 2012 (EST)
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| : Issues of exclusion, diversity, and ego-centrism affect all of us. You're right anarchist theory has a lot to say about these things, but the objections above are tangible whether we recognise ideology or not. -- 20:10, 6 April 2012 (EST)
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| :: I still don't get how a wall of faces excludes people --[[User:Msemtd|Michael Erskine]] 07:07, 10 April 2012 (EST)
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| I find the idea that people are going to project their egos across the hackspace by means of a lit up square inch on the wall a bit ridiculous... -- [[User:Davidhayward|Davidhayward]] 09:26, 4 April 2012 (EST)
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| :: It's ridiculous for a member to draw attention to their presence for the remainder of the day, as if to say "I waz ere". It would be nice to get to know each other better, but putting our faces up on the wall is a shallow and vaguely self-aggrandising way to do it. -- 20:10, 6 April 2012 (EST)
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| ::: The idea that the lights stay on for the rest of the days was just one of many, its was documents first as the easies option to implement, its is by no means finally, it's more likely they will just be on for an hour after a members last card swipe --[[User:Lwk|'RepRap' Matt]] 06:44, 8 April 2012 (EST)
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| ::: I'm all for the ridiculous! I would like to link names to faces and I'd like people to be able to link my name to my face. What proposals are there for non-shallow and non-vaguely-self-aggrandising ways of getting to know each other (bearing in mind that we are not all comfortable asking peoples' names - repeatedly in my case!) (Not that I believe this to be self-aggrandising or shallow) EDIT: OK, found the new page about ways to get to know each other - none of which help me fit names to faces like a simple bunch of photos would --[[User:Msemtd|Michael Erskine]] 07:07, 10 April 2012 (EST)
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| : ...People can give their egos a much bigger stroke than that already, on here or the mailing list. --[[User:Davidhayward|Davidhayward]] 09:26, 4 April 2012 (EST) | |
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| :: This is another argument I've made before: We need anonymous ways to contribute to this wiki and the online community, ideally as there are on Wikipedia and other genuine wikis (leaving only IP address and not requiring a login). Some of us don't enjoy the debating style of decision making, where we have to argue as individuals, but individualised communication is the only way to get involved at the moment. At least one other person has said they would hate to see the Wall of Faces, but won't join in debate, because they only have an opportunity to engage in modes of communication that make them feel very bad (and subsequently angry). -- 20:10, 6 April 2012 (EST)
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| ::: Can you create a means for anonymous participation that isn't subject to abuse? (e.g. multiple sock-puppet voices, spamming, etc.) If so then I can't see why it wouldn't be integrated. --[[User:Msemtd|Michael Erskine]] 07:07, 10 April 2012 (EST)
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| == Thumbs up for the Wall of Faces == | | == Thumbs up for the Wall of Faces == |
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Discussion to move this forward as an actual project
- Can we start by somehow archiving all the discussion that takes place further down? Gmjhowe (talk) 08:00, 21 January 2013 (EST)
- Yes, just blank it - it'll be stored in the history James (talk) 08:25, 21 January 2013 (EST)
- Ok, removed everything, left in the 'thumbs up' bit as it has some good starting points in it Gmjhowe (talk) 08:38, 21 January 2013 (EST)
Thumbs up for the Wall of Faces
After being a member for about a year now i still only properly recognise no more than 10 other members by name and face whilst not really interacting with anyone else because i have no idea who they are.
So a wall of faces with a picture with or without info such as real name,aka name,intersts,skills and so on would REALLY enhance my (guests/visiters/new members/existing members) visits to the space and help to interact more with others.
Plus it would be a nice little starter kit for new members.
- A photo-album kept in the member's room would serve the same purpose. And it's more likely that people would agree to opt-in to that, so it would be more useful for security. -- 20:10, 6 April 2012 (EST)
- We definitely need to find more Ways we can get to know each other. -- 20:18, 6 April 2012 (EST)