2013-05-23 AGM Minutes

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Roll Call

  • Adam Frogatt
  • Andrew Armstrong
  • Andrew Manning
  • Andrew Martin
  • Ange Taggart
  • Charlotte Calpin
  • Daniel Cosser
  • Daniel Martin
  • David Clarke
  • David Hayward
  • Dominic Morrow
  • Edward Pogorski
  • Elizabeth Matter
  • Fiona Norbury
  • Gareth Howell
  • Gillain Zirmer
  • Hayley Skinner
  • Jake Howe
  • James Fowkes
  • James Hayward
  • Joe Duckhouse
  • John Higham
  • Justin Stokes
  • Kate Bolin
  • Lionel Goodwin
  • Matt Lloyd
  • Matthew Gates (Mouse)
  • Matthew Little
  • Michael Erskine
  • Michel Flor-Henry
  • Michelle Strickland (Proxy: James Fowkes)
  • Rob Haywood
  • Rob Hunt
  • Rob Miles
  • Russell Houghton (Proxy: Andrew Martin)
  • Sebastian Price
  • Spencer Owen



AGM Financials 2012 June to April 2013

Special Resolution: 2.5

With changes, carried. Added to Constitution


Quorum will not be changed.


Election results: 40 voters.

  • 38 votes for James Hayward
  • 38, David Hayward
  • 38, Matt Lloyd
  • 37 Gareth Howell
  • 2 voted "None of the above".

Full Minutes

Time Name Minute
19:22 Nachimir Nottinghack 2013 AGM begins. Roll call: (Taken on paper, to be added later). Number of members attending: 36.
19:22 Nachimir 2. Finances up to May
19:23 Nachimir Matt Lloyd: Are on the wiki already for the last 11 months. Jun 2012 - Apr 2013.
19:23 Nachimir EOY bank balance: £2856 (Didn't catch rest).
19:23 Nachimir Membership: 87 at start of year, end of year 173.
19:24 Nachimir Membership dues for Apr 2013 broke £2000.
19:25 Nachimir Total outgoings: £28,588. 16K = rent and bills.
19:25 Nachimir £2300 - snackspace.
19:25 Nachimir Income for year: 28,011.50p
19:25 Nachimir (Missed total dues)
19:25 Nachimir Workshops: £2700 in
19:25 Nachimir Pledges: 727
19:26 Nachimir Snackspace: £2651
19:26 Nachimir (Full figures here: http://wiki.nottinghack.org.uk/wiki/AGM_Financials_June_2011_to_May_2012 )
19:27 Nachimir Officially we made a loss of £575.76p.
19:27 Nachimir However, from that past year expenditure we've gained assets: Mill, etc.
19:28 Nachimir Question: Ange Taggart asks about loans. Is that included in the finances?
19:28 Nachimir Matt: Yes.
19:28 luxpir left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
19:29 Nachimir Dominic: It wasn't for rent. It was for a shortfall in bizspaces billing. We took a soft loan which we paid back at ~£250 per month. Two repayments remain.
19:29 Nachimir Ange: Is that still a problem? James: No, we break even now.
19:30 Nachimir (Joking) Dominic: Shouldn't joke about stuff, the mill is a significant asset that we got cheaply and restored.
19:30 Nachimir Matt Ll: We've had a small surplus each month for the past few.
19:31 Nachimir James H: If we weren't improving the space, we'd have much more than we need to run the space. We should aim to break even, or save for planned expenditure, , not make a profit.
19:32 Nachimir Ange ask if this be ing noted down: Yes, minuted on IRC.
19:33 Nachimir 3. Special resolution 2.5
19:33 Nachimir James H: Amendment to section 2.5 of constitution. Summary: Current one is how today's election runs.
19:33 Nachimir Returning officer offers voting by email or ballot.
19:33 Nachimir Proposed change: Electronic voting, using S.T.V.
19:34 Nachimir James: STV is fairer, and electronic voting allows us to involve more members.
19:34 LWK http://wiki.nottinghack.org.uk/wiki/Talk:Constitution
19:34 Nachimir Proposed change: http://wiki.nottinghack.org.uk/wiki/Talk:Constitution
19:35 Nachimir 2.5 Elections
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.1 Trustee positions become vacant when trustees either reach the end of their term of office or decide to stand down part way through their term. These will be decided a month before AGM.
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.2 In the week leading up to the AGM, elections must be held for all trustee positions that have become vacant.
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.3 Any member can nominate themselves to stand for election by giving notice to the community during the nomination window.
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.4 The nomination window will normally begin when the AGM is announced and end 24 hours before elections begin. The window will be announced along with the AGM.
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.5 Elections shall be conducted using electronic means. These must be secure and fair.
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.6 Elections will use Single Transferable Vote
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.7 Members may abstain from voting
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.8 In the event of a tie, a new election will take place immediately amongst the tied candidates.
19:35 Nachimir 2.5.9 If one of the tied candidates decides to withdraw, and the remaining candidate has passed the winning threshold a new election will not be required.
19:36 Nachimir Questions: Matt Little: Fully electronic? No way of writing down votes? Everyone would need some kind of gadget?
19:36 Nachimir James: Yes, or they could vote in the space. Would be secure and anonymous.
19:36 Nachimir System stores vote, and that you voted, but they're stored separately. Cannot trace who voted for what.
19:37 Nachimir Dominic: Would it not be better to retain the use of a returning officer to remove any doubt?
19:37 Nachimir James: Someitmes difficult to find.
19:37 Nachimir Andrew A: Website takes less work. I would have volunteered for that this time.
19:38 Nachimir James F: This is a turnkey solution, not one we're writing ourselves?
19:38 Nachimir James H: Yes, it's an open source system used by London Hackspace.
19:38 Nachimir Wants to write a clause in that lets us find an alternative solution if this service goes down.
19:39 rkm joined the chat room.
19:39 Nachimir Ange: How long do you have to be a member in order to vote? James: As long as you're a member when the election starts, then you can vote. Ange: Have experienced this in Nottingham before where people come into an AGM en masse and vote.
19:39 Nachimir Dominic: But our current system is really slow.
19:40 Nachimir [name
19:40 Nachimir [new member, sorry don't have name
19:41 Nachimir Ange: A month would be better than the day before. James F: What happened in the other case? Ange: They had to bring in someone external to rewrite the constitution with safeguards against it.
19:42 Nachimir James: We're considering lowering the quorum.
19:43 Nachimir Michael E: Wouldn't people have to maintain their membership to effect that change?
19:43 Nachimir Ange: They could just cancel after a month.
19:43 Nachimir James H: But Michael is saying that the changes they'd want to effect would be quite physical.
19:44 Nachimir Liz M: Not practical to make a rule that stops people from getting their friends to join, but if it's visible that someone had persuaded friends to join, is there some way we could discipline that.
19:44 Nachimir John H: Perhaps a better way would be a minimum number of payments.
19:45 Nachimir James H: I agree. Worry about new members not getting or feeling involved.
19:45 Nachimir Michel: Not in favour of electronic voting.
19:45 Nachimir (Wanted it recorded).
19:45 Nachimir James: We'll vote on it in a minute. We need a 60% vote yes from this room to pass it.
19:46 Nachimir Adam: No matter what, it can be gamed. I think regardless of rules, it will always be a potential issue.
19:47 Nachimir Jake: When an AGM is announced, anyone who is a member at that point can vote?
19:47 Nachimir James: Election starts a week before the AGM. So one way we could do it, it that someone should be a member when the AGM (or EGM) is announced.
19:49 Nachimir Michael E: Any determined party could come in an take over the hackspace. In which case, the membership will agree with it, or go somewhere else and set soemthing else up. It's just how organisations are, and we could legislate against it forever.
19:49 Nachimir Liz M: I think if we try to put preventative rules in place, we'd just alienate new members.
19:50 Nachimir [New member
19:50 Nachimir James: We've intentionally kept those quite lose. That could quite easily be perverted while still operating within them.
19:51 Nachimir Difficult to match everyone against those, and we'd practically become thought police.
19:52 Nachimir Dominic: I think this is a valid concern. Like many others: Probably better for us to be open though, rather than bind ourselves in rules.
19:52 Nachimir Ange: In order to be able to vote, what exactly are the criteria? James: One monthly payment by the time the election starts.
19:52 Nachimir Ange: I think that's fair enough, it just means people can't turn up the day before.
19:53 Nachimir (Dominic and Kate describe current joining procedure).
19:54 Nachimir James: Would you like to propose an amendment? Ange: No, happy with the way it is after that discussion.
19:55 Nachimir James: Anyone think we should propose an amendment? (No hands). Jake: Only change I could see is you've got to be a member when the AGM is announced. James H: To be fair, you have to be a member when the AGM is announced to run for the board, so why not make it the same cutoff for new members voting?
19:56 Nachimir Dominic: Against that. Two people in this room wouldn't be able to vote today, and we're only just quorate.
19:58 Nachimir 12 in favour of Jakes amendment, 15 against.
19:58 Nachimir Voting limit remains at start of election rather than announcement.
19:59 Nachimir (Andrew A points out quibble I didn't quite catch).
19:59 Nachimir Andrew: similar to 2.5.10 in the old constitution. Creates another seven day window, even with the new voting system, rather than calling for an immediate election.
20:00 Nachimir James, Dominic: That's a good point. Will amend.
20:00 Nachimir David C: That new election cause by a draw, would the voters be the same pool, or anyone a member at *that* point?
20:00 Nachimir James H: No, it would still be restricted to the voter pool at the start of the elections.
20:01 Nachimir Question about ties that are over the threshold: Are those people in?
20:01 Nachimir James H: No, even if above the threshold, the tie would go to another election.
20:02 Nachimir Matt Little: If it's all electronic, I'd like something written in to allow for either someone to do it manually (offline), or that computer access will be provided for them?
20:02 Nachimir James H: There is a way that we can use offline voting too.
20:02 justin_j_ left the chat room. (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
20:02 Nachimir Dominic: If there's no returning officer, I don't understand how that would work.
20:03 Nachimir (Person enters: 37 members in attendance).
20:03 Nachimir Eddie: How would you contact people if you don't have their email?
20:04 Nachimir Andrew A: Only notification in the constitution is to put it on the calendar. Michael E: But it's online. Could we also put it on the wall? James H: Yes.
20:05 Nachimir James: Do we need to amend it to allow some kind of offline voting? *Nearly everyone says yes*.
20:05 Nachimir Joe We will need a returning officer then.
20:06 justin_j_ joined the chat room.
20:06 Nachimir James H: (Proposes amendments that allow for a returning officer and physical voting).
20:06 Nachimir Votes for that: Nearly all yes.
20:06 Nachimir Voting on seven day window: Also nearly unanimous.
20:07 Nachimir (new member): How are you defining offline members?
20:07 Nachimir James: If anyone hasn't given an email address.
20:07 Nachimir (new member): So if I've given you an email, I have to vote electronically?
20:08 Nachimir James: No, returning officer finds a way for people to vote offline if they want to, they can opt out of online voting. Returning officer will manage that.
20:09 Nachimir Michael E: To raise a point of order, this amendment has been published and available for everyone to comment on for a week. For everyone to start picking it apart right now is a bit last minute.
20:10 Nachimir James reads whole amendment again at the request of Matthew Gates. *waits for it to load*
20:10 Nachimir (Including amendments from this meeting).
20:12 Nachimir Vote on amendment to constitution: Carried.
20:12 Nachimir (almost unanimous).
20:12 Nachimir 4. Quorum.
20:12 Nachimir James: Last year we defined the quorum as 20% and put it into constitution. There was talk yesterday of lowering it,, so we could maintain quorum.
20:12 Nachimir (We only just made it tonight).
20:13 Nachimir (35 were required).
20:13 Nachimir James: Should we change that percentage?
20:14 Nachimir Voting to see purely to see if we should have a discussion: more in favour than not, but less than half.
20:14 Nachimir Dominic: We could have done more to get members down to this meeting. It's about having representation, not rushing stuff through.
20:15 Nachimir We could put on transport from Derby. We could get pizza in, there's more we could do to raise engagement.
20:15 Nachimir Spencer: What estimates do we have for growth.
20:16 Nachimir James: Forecast for 2014 is that we'll have 26X members and need 54.
20:16 Nachimir Andrew A: What's the percentage of members we have who aren't in Nottingham?
20:16 Nachimir James H: Last I checked, 70% live in Nottingham.
20:17 emilepetrone left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)
20:18 Nachimir Adam F: Tonight, some people acted as proxies, so in favour of keeping it. (New member): Electronic voting proxies? James H: No, a proxy needs to be able to speak at the AGM.
20:18 Nachimir Spencer: Would Skype be acceptable? James H: Yes, we'd have to provide the means though. We could do a massive google hangout if we needed to.
20:19 Nachimir Ange: I think it's really dangerous to lower it. Makes the space more vulnerable to cliques.
20:20 Nachimir Matthew G: I think lowering it moderately would make sense. As our membership grows, I think we have more of a long tail.
20:20 Nachimir Dominic: The worst that will happen is we're not quorate, and have to go out and get people more engaged.
20:20 emilepetrone joined the chat room.
20:21 Nachimir James: Any member can appoint any other member as their proxy for the AGM, and a member can even serve as a proxy for multiple members as long as those people feel they can represent their views.
20:21 Nachimir Rob M: How do we authenticate proxies?
20:22 Nachimir James H: We make it a matter of public record, and if those people object it invalidates.
20:22 Nachimir AGM conclusions, votes, etc.
20:22 Nachimir James calls vote on changing or maintaining quorum. Passes on no change, almost unanimous.
20:23 Nachimir 5. Election.
20:23 justin_j_ left the chat room. (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
20:23 Nachimir James summarises. Rob Hayward in blue room with voting slips, if you've voted electronically, you will not be able to vote tonight.
20:23 Nachimir (Meeting breaks up to vote).
20:29 artag arduino
20:29 artag oops
20:29 artag soory
20:32 justin_j_ joined the chat room.
20:41 rkm left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
20:44 justin_j_ left the chat room. (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
20:44 Nachimir Election results: 40 voters.
20:46 Nachimir 38 votes for James Hayward. 38, David Hayward. 38, Matt Lloyd. 37 Gareth Howell. 2 voted "None of the above".
20:46 LWK left the chat room. (Excess Flood)
20:46 Nachimir AGM concluded.