2012-11-07 Minutes

Actions

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Roll Call

Board Members

• James Hayward (JH)
• David Hayward (DH)
• Kate
• Matt Lloyd (MLl)
• Dominic Morrow
• David Clarke

This meeting was quorate

Members

• Craig
• Daniel
• Andrew
• Russell
• Nicola L
• Dan W
• Gill

Full Minutes

Time	Name	Minute
20:02	Nachimir	Nottinghack members meeting about to start, November 7th 2012.
20:05		kimjonggill joined the chat room.
20:06	Nachimir	Roll call: James H., David H, Craig P, Daniel, Andrew A, Kate B, Russell, Nicola L., Matt Ll, Dominic M, David C., Dan W, Gill Z. (Board: Quorate).
20:06	Nachimir	Michael W joins.
20:07	Nachimir	James H apologises for not getting the minutes up on tyhe wiki yet.
20:08	Nachimir	Item 5. Pledge Drives
20:08	Nachimir	(James apologises for agenda jumping around a bit).
20:09	Nachimir	David C: Have spent some money fixing up the wood lathe, would like those expenses repaid.
20:09	Nachimir	Looking back, we had quite a lot of pledges for a wood lathe. One person who pledged has left the country since.
20:09	Nachimir	Is is reasonable for pledge drives to be ongoing and open ended, or should they have a target/cut off date?
20:10	Nachimir	Dominic asks: What's been spent on the wood lathe? David C: About £66, and Wendy has contributed about £100 to chucks etc.
20:11	Nachimir	Dominic suggests we just pay it out of hackspace funds.
20:11	Nachimir	(Michael E. joins)
20:12	Nachimir	Votes against: 0.
20:12	Nachimir	Expenses for David C, carried. Action: DM to talk to Wendy about her contributions.
20:13	Nachimir	David C and James ask the original question again: Should pledge drives have an open end, or a target/cutoff?
20:13	Nachimir	Matt Ll: sometimes, we look around ebay for months to get something, and I don't think the hackspace should sit on people's money.
20:13	Nachimir	Andrew A suggests something like kickstarter.
20:14	Nachimir	James H: I don't see sitting on people's money as necessarily a bad thing, if we set up a separate account for it.
20:14	Nachimir	Micheal E: Why don't we try a few different things and see what works?
20:14	Nachimir	(some discussion of cutoff), suggested: 6 months.
20:15	Nachimir	Michael W: [Has to be case by case, some things are bigger and more difficult to get
20:15	Nachimir	Matt Ll: Andrew T planning on putting a pledge system into HMS.
20:16	Nachimir	James H: The wood lathe thread raised more than we've spent on the wood lathe.
20:16	Nachimir	Messaging has to be careful if we resurrect the thread: People shouldn't feel obliged to honour their pledges given they're that old.
20:17	Nachimir	Action: David C to message list regarding wood lathe.
20:18	Nachimir	David H: Integration with HMX would be good thing: Can be added to people's bills if a pledge hits target, and people will know they can't pledge lightly.
20:18	Nachimir	*HMS
20:19	Nachimir	David C mentions pillar drill pledge. Russell mentions we shouldn't go to machine mart, as newer machines are badly constructed. Something older and reconditioned would probably be better for our money.
20:20	Nachimir	[Discussion
20:21	Nachimir	Action: DM to find out how much we have pledged for a pillar drill.
20:21	Nachimir	(Mouse joins).
20:22	Nachimir	Action: DM and Russell to assess options for pillar drills.
20:22	Nachimir	James says: "Putting the 3 phase back in is a 10 minute job".
20:22	Nachimir	Item 2: Actions update.
20:22	Nachimir	Chairs back, DM: All chairs are at the popup shop until it closes.
20:23	Nachimir	Video: Nothing sorted beyond the conversation me and Jake had at the time. Action: David H to check.
20:24	Nachimir	Quotes for stickers and cleaners, DM: Not done it. Actions, ongoing.
20:25	Nachimir	Hack the space cancelled this month due to power out. Next month: 2nd December, list in events: Action for Kate B.
20:25	Nachimir	Cost shelves to replace blue racking: Matt Ll. Ongoing Action.
20:26	Nachimir	Hazard analysis matrix on blue room table, Michael E.: Yep.
20:26	Nachimir	Get rid of brown chairs: Not yet, but will. Action, David C.
20:27	Nachimir	Need someone to take on and produce risk assessments for the space: Who? Michael E: Whoever on the mailing list said we needed them. James: Happy to hunt them down.
20:28	Nachimir	Dominic: Since no one is volunteering, should we pay someone to come in and do some?
20:28	Nachimir	Andrew A: How much would it cost?
20:28	Nachimir	DM: Don't know.
20:28	Nachimir	Kate: Happy for someone to be paid to do it.
20:28	Nachimir	Dominic: Action, look into getting someone to do risk assessments.
20:30	Nachimir	[discussion of insurance
20:31	Nachimir	Kate: Action: I'll do the quote for stickers if Dominic lets me know what's needed.
20:31	Nachimir	Item 4: Young Hackers Members.
20:31	Nachimir	James H: We've had a number of enquiries from children, 16 - 18, about membership. At the moment, rule is that their parents become members and they come with supervision.
20:32	Nachimir	I'd like to open up to 16 - 18 as young hackers.
20:32	Nachimir	Dominic: I'm for it, member with full access, and no supervision, though on a case by case basis. Possibly in the form of some agreement with their legal guardian.
20:33	Nachimir	James: Would be exactly the same as a normal membership, but we'd insist on parent or guardian coming with them to see the space and understand, and signing an agreement that says we are not responsible beyond our ordinary duty of care for those children.
20:34	Nachimir	Michael W: Some 16 year olds can be emancipated. Can marry, legally leave care.
20:34	Nachimir	Mouse: Sometimes, we have alcohol in the space, I wouldn't want that to be banned as a result.
20:35	Nachimir	Michael W: Only thing in law is that you can't sell it to them.
20:35	Nachimir	Kate: Wouldn't want to end up in press as "hackspace gets kids drunk". Mouse: I wouldn't want people to feel awkward about drinking at social events.
20:36	Nachimir	James: Suggested option of time limited entry to the space. Personally, not necessarily for that, but wanted to bring it up as something that had been discussed.
20:37	Nachimir	Dominic: We're not saying these thing will happen, but want to show we've thought about and addressed them.
20:37	Nachimir	James: Would like to get proper legal advice. Dominic: Fine, get a quote (Action, Jame H.)
20:37	Nachimir	Kate, yes, would like proper legal advice.
20:38	Nachimir	Don't worry so much about reputational damage, but someone's mother coming here and screaming at us because little Johnny had a beer. We should be able to show that we';ve thought of and planned for this kind of thing.
20:38	Nachimir	James: Legal advice before anything else.
20:40		LWK_mac joined the chat room.
20:40	Nachimir	Andrew A: At the national museum of computing, we have young members, but they're vetted because we have to look after them.
20:40	Nachimir	James: I do't want to have to look after them. If the legal advice states we have to look after under 18s, then I'll be against it. We can't be in loco parentis for anybody.
20:41	Nachimir	Michael W: I used to do a lot of rocketry, and we didn't let children handle any high power rocket motors until they'd sat an exam. So did adults, but we made it tougher for kids, and introduced it at a lower power, to make sure they understood basic safety rules.
20:42	Nachimir	Dan W: Suggestion on legal advice. Possibly, we could get some advice from Nottingham Trent University.
20:43	Nachimir	Action: David H to talk to NTU marketing. Dominic: Would rather pay a lawyer.
20:43	Nachimir	Item 3, financial update.
20:43	LWK_mac	==Quick summary==
20:43	LWK_mac	Start bank balance: £3511.08
20:44	LWK_mac	Out: £1616.09
20:44	LWK_mac	In: £1775.29
20:44	LWK_mac	End: £3670.28
20:44	LWK_mac	Paypal Start: £43.76
20:44	LWK_mac	Paypal End: £43.76
20:44	LWK_mac	Cash Start balance: £84.02
20:44	LWK_mac	Cash In: £568.49
20:44	LWK_mac	Cash Out: £180.27
20:44	LWK_mac	Cash End: £472.24
20:44	LWK_mac	==Members==
20:44	LWK_mac	Start: 128
20:44	LWK_mac	New: 7
20:44	LWK_mac	Ex: 7
20:44	LWK_mac	End: 128
20:44	LWK_mac	Average membership due: £12.72
20:44	LWK_mac	==In/out Breakdown==
20:44	LWK_mac	===Outgoings===
20:44	LWK_mac	BizSpace: £1,180.08
20:44	LWK_mac	Talk talk: £28.74
20:44	LWK_mac	Insurance: £65.39
20:44	LWK_mac	Loan: £208.33
20:44	LWK_mac	Other: £133.55
20:44	LWK_mac	===Income===
20:44	LWK_mac	Membership dues: £1523.29
20:44	LWK_mac	Petty Cash Deposits: £207.00
20:44	LWK_mac	Workshops: £
20:44	LWK_mac	Donations: £
20:44	LWK_mac	Events: £
20:44	LWK_mac	Pledges: £45
20:48		kimjonggill_ joined the chat room.
20:49	Nachimir	Kate asks average. Matt Ll: Descending continually. Dominic: We're one of the cheapest spaces to be in at the moment. (General discussion: We need to raise our average).
20:49	Nachimir	Item 6. Minimum membership?
20:49		kimjonggill left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:49	Nachimir	Item 6: Safety gear.
20:49	Nachimir	(oops).
20:50	Nachimir	Mouse has proposed buying more ear defenders for the workshop. JameS: How many do you think we should get? Mouse: 5 or 6 pairs.
20:50	Nachimir	James: Any objections to authorising @0 - 30 quid for ear defenders?
20:50	Nachimir	Russell: Are they over ear?
20:50	Nachimir	Budget £20, authorised.
20:51	Nachimir	David C raised: We should have some masks for the spray booth. Also, disposable dust masks for the woodworking area.
20:51	Nachimir	Any objections? None.
20:51	Nachimir	Action: Matt Ll to sort out.
20:52	Nachimir	James: David C, do you think we should have a different kind of mask for the spray booth? Russell, yes, has to be a painters mask.
20:52	Nachimir	Dominic: If it's less than £50, I think we should get it.
20:52	Nachimir	We need this stuff.
20:53	Nachimir	Michael W: Carbon filters have a life. Russell: We have a mechanism for dating them when you put them in.
20:54	Nachimir	Dominic: Proposes that we have a large enough stock of them that we replenish, that we rarely ever worry about them. Want to get to point where we're providing PPE and it's no issue.
20:55	Nachimir	Item 7: Minimum membership.
20:55	Nachimir	A few times in past, a minimum membership of a fiver has been mooted. Generally not adopted on basis that fewer rules are better.But soemthing happened that reminded me.
20:55	Nachimir	Member emailed "I'm not using the space much, but want to keep access. So, I've dropped my monthly payment to a penny. I trust this is the right way to go about things?".
20:56	Nachimir	Discussed with board and replied: No it's not. Kate pointed out that's about 2 minutes of electricity. Arguable that 24h access alone costs more than a penny per month per member.
20:56	Nachimir	Craig P: Perhaps we have a minimum for 24h access?
20:56	Nachimir	James H: Goes back to Mouses question earlier of minimum membership for a box.
20:57	Nachimir	Dominic: Once we start making rules, we possibly lose a lot of value to people. Looks bureaucratic.
20:57	Nachimir	James: Have always thought we should have some kind of threshold for certain things.
20:58	Nachimir	Gill: In a situation where someone's paying a penny, we're then in a position where we have to politely ask them to pay more.
20:59	Nachimir	Dominic: We'd have to set that price, and things would continually make it vary: inflation, etc.
21:00	Nachimir	Mouse: Actually against having stated mimimums, because pay what you want is a great selling point.
21:00	Nachimir	Examples/guidelines a good idea.
21:00	Nachimir	Dominic: Could use penny thing as an example on this.
21:01	Nachimir	Kate: Rather than listing as "X gets you X", have something like the cost of hacking, but more detailed.
21:01	Nachimir	Mouse: Danger though if you're going to start putting values on things, because people then think "Oh, I only have to pay this much".
21:01	Nachimir	Gareth Howell joins.
21:02	Nachimir	Action: David and Kate to work some examples out for this. No minimum membership fee.
21:03	Nachimir	Dominic: Penny a month is basically breaking the rule on "don't be a contemptible fellow".
21:03	Nachimir	AOB
21:04		You left the chat by being disconnected from the server.
21:07		You rejoined the room.
21:08	Nachimir	(Disconnected from IRC at 21:05)
21:08	Nachimir	Kate: I have some other business. I have somebody who can possibly start doing bike workshops again in the spring.
21:08	Nachimir	Everyone: Excellent.
21:08	Nachimir	Russell H: Gas for the welder? James H: Warren took that away but hasn't returned. Do you want to take that as an action? Russell: Will talk to Warren, I do have an interest in sorting that.
21:08	Nachimir	No other stuff, meeting adjourned.