2012-12-05 Minutes

Actions

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Roll Call

Board Members

• David Hayward
• David Clarke
• James Hayward
• Jake Howe
• Kate Bolin
• Matt Lloyd
• Dominic Morrow (via IRC)

This meeting was quorate

Members

• Russell
• Michael E
• Craig
• Daniel
• Marcus
• Tom
• Tristan
• Adam F

Potential Members

• Daniel G
• Michel

Full Minutes

Time	Name	Minute
20:08	Nachimir	Nottingham Hackspace members meeting about to begin, 05/12/2012. Board, quorate, present: David H, David C, Russell, Michael E, Craig P, Daniel, Marcus, James H, Jake H, Tom G, Tristan, Kate B, Matt Ll, Adam F, Potential members: Daniel G, Michel.
20:08	Nachimir	1. James H: Historical minutes are now on the wiki.
20:08	ChickenGrylls	and Dominic on IRC
20:08	Nachimir	3. Actions update.
20:09	Nachimir	Actions, from August.
20:09	Nachimir	Update companies house - done.
20:09	Nachimir	September: Matt Ll access to bank account. Not done yet.
20:09	Nachimir	Buy an event shelter in February. Kate. Not February yet.
20:11	Nachimir	James outlines: Dominic planning a big hackspace map for maker faire.
20:11	Nachimir	Orgainse Festivus party: In progress, DM.
20:11	Nachimir	Get quote from cleaner: In progress.
20:12	Nachimir	Organise monthly hack the space days: Done. David C: Had a second, which went quite well.
20:12	Nachimir	DM: Pick up six crates of Club Mate from Manchester: Not done yet, new year at earlest.
20:12	Nachimir	David H: Draft expenses policy for board members.
20:13	Nachimir	Dominic: Store chairs. Now at Backlit, going back in Dominic's office at no charge.
20:13	Nachimir	Hackspace video, David H, Jake H: Main filming done, need cutaways. Estimate: New year.
20:14	Nachimir	Kate: Quotes for stickers. Not done yet.
20:14	Nachimir	Matt Ll: Cost new shelves for members room. Not done yet.
20:14	Nachimir	Matt Ll: Make light switch map. There's already one on the wiki that Dan and Tim made.
20:15	Nachimir	DM: Talk to Wendy about expenses for Wood lathe. Not done.
20:15	Nachimir	David Clarke: Email members about wood lathe pledges. Not done yet.
20:16	Nachimir	Review pillar drill pledge and assess suitable options: DM and Russell. Matt Ll: decision made, just have to go and get it.
20:16	Nachimir	(Decided on radial arm model).
20:17	Nachimir	James H: Young hackers.
20:17	Nachimir	David H: Talk to NTU, not done.
20:17	Nachimir	Mouse: Ear defnders - not yet.
20:17	Nachimir	Matt Ll: Sourcing spray mask and filters.
20:18	Nachimir	+Mouse
20:18	Nachimir	Guidance for new members, David H and Kate: Not done.
20:19	Nachimir	ACtions done.
20:19	Nachimir	4. Financial update
20:19		LWK_mac joined the chat room.
20:20	LWK_mac	Quick summary
20:20	LWK_mac	Start bank balance: £3,688.28
20:20	LWK_mac	Out: £1,678.40
20:20	LWK_mac	In: £1,553.29
20:20	LWK_mac	End: £3,563.17
20:20	LWK_mac	Paypal Start: £43.76
20:20	LWK_mac	Paypal End: £43.76
20:20	LWK_mac	Cash Start balance: £472.24
20:20	LWK_mac	Cash In: £238.02
20:20	LWK_mac	Cash Out: £304.68
20:20	LWK_mac	Cash End: £405.58
20:20	LWK_mac	[edit
20:20	LWK_mac	Start: 128
20:20	LWK_mac	New: 10
20:20	LWK_mac	Ex: 3
20:20	LWK_mac	End: 135
20:20	LWK_mac	Average membership due: £12.85
20:20	LWK_mac	[edit
20:20	LWK_mac	[edit
20:20	LWK_mac	BizSpace: £1,180.08 (should have been £ 1,170.36)
20:20	LWK_mac	Talk talk: £28.74
20:20	LWK_mac	Insurance: £65.39
20:20	LWK_mac	Loan: £208.33
20:20	LWK_mac	Other: £205.58
20:20	LWK_mac	[edit
20:20	LWK_mac	Membership dues: £1,553.29
20:20	LWK_mac	Petty Cash Deposits:
20:20	LWK_mac	Workshops: £
20:20	LWK_mac	Donations: £
20:20	LWK_mac	Events: £
20:20	LWK_mac	Pledges: £
20:20	LWK_mac	Quick summary
20:20	LWK_mac	Start bank balance: £3,688.28
20:20	LWK_mac	Out: £1,678.40
20:20	LWK_mac	In: £1,553.29
20:20	LWK_mac	End: £3,563.17
20:20	LWK_mac	Paypal Start: £43.76
20:20	LWK_mac	Paypal End: £43.76
20:20	LWK_mac	Cash Start balance: £472.24
20:20	LWK_mac	Cash In: £238.02
20:20	LWK_mac	Cash Out: £304.68
20:21	LWK_mac	Cash End: £405.58
20:21	LWK_mac	[edit
20:21	LWK_mac	Start: 128
20:21	LWK_mac	New: 10
20:21	LWK_mac	Ex: 3
20:21	LWK_mac	End: 135
20:21	LWK_mac	Average membership due: £12.85
20:21	LWK_mac	[edit
20:21	LWK_mac	[edit
20:21	LWK_mac	BizSpace: £1,180.08 (should have been £ 1,170.36)
20:21	LWK_mac	Talk talk: £28.74
20:21	LWK_mac	Insurance: £65.39
20:21	LWK_mac	Loan: £208.33
20:21	LWK_mac	Other: £205.58
20:21	LWK_mac	[edit
20:21	LWK_mac	Membership dues: £1,553.29
20:21	LWK_mac	Petty Cash Deposits:
20:21	LWK_mac	Workshops: £
20:21	LWK_mac	Donations: £
20:21	LWK_mac	Events: £
20:21	LWK_mac	Pledges: £
20:21	Nachimir	5. Fixings, JH
20:23	Nachimir	JH would like to authorise budget for nuts, bolts and screws. About £200?
20:24	Nachimir	David C and Matt: £70 for comprehensive collection of nuts and bolts.
20:24	Nachimir	Qtys for each size of bolt to get discount from Butlers = 500s and 1000s. Could get 40% off.
20:25	Nachimir	Kate: Need nails in there too; ones we have right now are a grab bag of random bits.
20:26	Nachimir	David C: Will make partly worked out list, will turn into concrete one and pass to Matt Ll and David H.
20:26	Nachimir	David C suggests initial budget of £100.
20:27	Nachimir	+ £30 for parts draws we can label in anticipation. No objections, both carried.
20:27	Nachimir	6. Young Adult Hackers - JH.
20:27	Nachimir	James has seen lawyers. Discussion on Hackspace organisers mailing list.
20:28	Nachimir	Lawyer: Bad plan, will just give us worst case information. (David H: NTU action struck).
20:28	Nachimir	.
20:28	Nachimir	We need to make the decision ourselves.
20:29	Nachimir	DETOUR INTO AOB
20:29	Nachimir	Russell raises welding gas.
20:31	Nachimir	Matt Lloyd gives estimated costs, 4.a-bit-p per litre, we'd get through 10 litres per minute. Russell: This is why small things are unusable, we'd go through them in minutes. Big container gives us 4000-odd litres. £94 per refill, we buy the tank. Tank cost: £160-something, comes filled.
20:32	Nachimir	So, at cheapest, would cost 40-something pence per minute to weld.
20:33	Nachimir	Steel wire fairly cheap, etc. Cylinder has gauge showing us amount of gas left.
20:33	Nachimir	Probably wouldn't charge, but we'd need to make clear to members that welding costs about 50p a minute.
20:34	Nachimir	Total expenditure: About £265. Jake: Shall we offset by one month. David C: May be additional expenses with regard to mill.
20:34	Nachimir	James H: Shall we offset to January? No objections, yes.
20:35	Nachimir	Russell: Ok to organise welding gas in Jan? Yes.
20:35		LWK_mac left the chat room. (Quit: Quit)
20:35	Nachimir	Back to 6, Young Adult Hackers.
20:37	Nachimir	Email from Russ: CRB checking not an issue anymore. Main issue is occupiers liability. Hackspace has a legal duty of care. For adults: Need to provide warning of dangers. For children (Under 18), need to be prepared for them to be less careful.
20:37	Nachimir	James proposes: Lower limit of 16, chat with guardian, anyone younger has to be supervised.
20:40	Nachimir	Suggestion of competency test. James H: Problems with that: We don't ask existing members to, so that would be disriminatory. Also, if someone passes test, then hurts theirself, that throw liability back on us.
20:41	Nachimir	Russell: No lone working policy, no panic button. We should have something to handle emergencies and safety. Feels like there's a missing element.
20:41	Nachimir	James H: I agree, most businesses have a lone working policy at least. Make sure someone knows where you are, how long you'll be, and how to contact you.
20:41	Nachimir	Russell: We can probably do better than that. James: Yes, my worry with that as with most technical hackspace projects, is will it get done? Lot of bikeshedding.
20:42	Nachimir	Daniel G: What about limiting hours. Kate, James: Wouldn't work, we grant 24h access. Letting them in means they can stay beyond those hours even if gatekeeper has limits.
20:43	ChickenGrylls	the onus needs to be on the individual to be responsible at all times in all ways including lone working
20:44	Nachimir	Waivers mentioned: James H: Unenforceable.
20:45	Nachimir	Many of the things we worry about with 16 - 18 year olds we could worry about with any of our other, relatively immature members.
20:45	Nachimir	Kate: So as well as member details on record, we have guardians details too. So when a kid runs around with a power saw, we can inform their guardian.
20:46	Nachimir	Jake: Should maintain contact with their guardians, or at least give them an opportunity to get the same updates.
20:47	ChickenGrylls	tell their parents on them? In my opinion that's a bit silly. We should trial with the existing junior applicants and see what we learn.
20:47	Nachimir	David C: Cannot see how we can have under 18s doing the sort of things that the hackspace allows us to do. Power tools, machining, etc. Worries me: I was involved in theater backstage work from the age of 15, using power tools, up ladders, etc., but there were adults around all the time. Not specifically looking after me, just around. Hackspace is potentially providing space where kids can do this, but adults are not necessarily around.
20:48	ChickenGrylls	and THAT is a good thing
20:48	Nachimir	David C: Young rewired team were drilling some stuff, sensible, intelligent, etc., but was using the wrong type of drill bit for the material. David stepped in, helped, and that worked well. Could be aproblem that we're implying anyone who signs up can just use the bench drill.
20:49	ChickenGrylls	I've seen lot of 30 year olds use the wrong drill bit
20:49	ChickenGrylls	I've used the wrong things myself
20:49	ChickenGrylls	it has nothing to do with age
20:50	Nachimir	James H: All members should ask for help if they don't know how to use a tool. For 16 - 18, that should be emphasised. I get it, and agree, but think it's safer for them to come here: At least there's a chance of them learning to use the tools properly.
20:50	Nachimir	Daniel G: Induction, crash course in health and safety or something.
20:50	ChickenGrylls	I agree with James
20:51	Nachimir	Kate: Every member joins for different reasons. Just have to drive home: ASK if you don't know how to use something. A physical induction for everything will last forever and a person will forget all of it.
20:51	ChickenGrylls	Kate is right
20:52	Nachimir	David C: We could make videos of people using tools properly. It's then "How it works, where the bits are, how to use it safely".
20:52	ChickenGrylls	I would think that would take someone a very very long time
20:53	ChickenGrylls	besides its the same issue. Are we saying that magically at 18 everyone knows how to do stuff? The liability is THE SAME
20:53	Nachimir	Jake: Most of the tools you could do serious damage to yourself with already require an induction.
20:53	ChickenGrylls	we allow under 18s on a case-by-case
20:53	Nachimir	(Dominic, have you asked anyone to be your voice here? As ever, I'm busy taking minutes).
20:54	ChickenGrylls	Don't worry about me. I'm getting my thoughts on the record!
20:54	ChickenGrylls	I've not asked
20:54	Nachimir	Kate: Need to keep under 18s away from the liquor cabinet. James: It would actually be legal for them to drink alcohol here. (We'd probably ask them not to).
20:55	Nachimir	James: Need to make clear that the hackspace is an adult space, there will be swearing, drinking, etc. List of extra stuff for a board member to go through, and a list by which a board member can assess their maturity.
20:56	Nachimir	Michel asks about HSE. James: We have employers duty of care to people running workshops, volunteering for anything.
20:57	Nachimir	James: Any other objections? (No). Action: Kate and James H to put together documentation for this.
20:58	Nachimir	Michel: What happens if this goes wrong? James: We'd review this at another board meeting. If we found we couldn't have 16 - 18 members, then we'd bring it to an end.
20:59	Nachimir	Russell: Assessment should probably involve 2 board members. James: I agree.
21:00	Nachimir	David C: Feasible to have a probationary period with their guardian coming with them? James: Problem is that so many parents don't give a toss about these subjects. Ones with interested parents are already coming on joint memberships.
21:01	Nachimir	Russell: Could it be that membership is probabtionary until 18? James: Yes.
21:02	Nachimir	Jake: If they do something silly in the first couple of visits, but what's the difference between that and them doing something silly a year in?
21:02	Nachimir	Kate: Would say it's a recommendation rather than mandatory, but we ask they come in on open nights for their first few months.
21:02	Nachimir	James and Kate writing up and posting to mailing list.
21:04	Nachimir	AOAOB: David C: Thanks to everyone who did some work at hack the space. We have some windows covered in bubble wrap, etc. to help insulate. Expenses need to be paid. Have material left, list of jobs still to do. James H: Dominic paying expenses by weekend.
21:04	Nachimir	Meeting adjourned.