2012-12-05 Minutes

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See Action List

Roll Call

Board Members

This meeting was quorate


Potential Members

  • Daniel G
  • Michel

Full Minutes

Time Name Minute
20:08 Nachimir Nottingham Hackspace members meeting about to begin, 05/12/2012. Board, quorate, present: David H, David C, Russell, Michael E, Craig P, Daniel, Marcus, James H, Jake H, Tom G, Tristan, Kate B, Matt Ll, Adam F, Potential members: Daniel G, Michel.
20:08 Nachimir 1. James H: Historical minutes are now on the wiki.
20:08 ChickenGrylls and Dominic on IRC
20:08 Nachimir 3. Actions update.
20:09 Nachimir Actions, from August.
20:09 Nachimir Update companies house - done.
20:09 Nachimir September: Matt Ll access to bank account. Not done yet.
20:09 Nachimir Buy an event shelter in February. Kate. Not February yet.
20:11 Nachimir James outlines: Dominic planning a big hackspace map for maker faire.
20:11 Nachimir Orgainse Festivus party: In progress, DM.
20:11 Nachimir Get quote from cleaner: In progress.
20:12 Nachimir Organise monthly hack the space days: Done. David C: Had a second, which went quite well.
20:12 Nachimir DM: Pick up six crates of Club Mate from Manchester: Not done yet, new year at earlest.
20:12 Nachimir David H: Draft expenses policy for board members.
20:13 Nachimir Dominic: Store chairs. Now at Backlit, going back in Dominic's office at no charge.
20:13 Nachimir Hackspace video, David H, Jake H: Main filming done, need cutaways. Estimate: New year.
20:14 Nachimir Kate: Quotes for stickers. Not done yet.
20:14 Nachimir Matt Ll: Cost new shelves for members room. Not done yet.
20:14 Nachimir Matt Ll: Make light switch map. There's already one on the wiki that Dan and Tim made.
20:15 Nachimir DM: Talk to Wendy about expenses for Wood lathe. Not done.
20:15 Nachimir David Clarke: Email members about wood lathe pledges. Not done yet.
20:16 Nachimir Review pillar drill pledge and assess suitable options: DM and Russell. Matt Ll: decision made, just have to go and get it.
20:16 Nachimir (Decided on radial arm model).
20:17 Nachimir James H: Young hackers.
20:17 Nachimir David H: Talk to NTU, not done.
20:17 Nachimir Mouse: Ear defnders - not yet.
20:17 Nachimir Matt Ll: Sourcing spray mask and filters.
20:18 Nachimir +Mouse
20:18 Nachimir Guidance for new members, David H and Kate: Not done.
20:19 Nachimir ACtions done.
20:19 Nachimir 4. Financial update
20:19 LWK_mac joined the chat room.
20:20 LWK_mac Quick summary
20:20 LWK_mac Start bank balance: £3,688.28
20:20 LWK_mac Out: £1,678.40
20:20 LWK_mac In: £1,553.29
20:20 LWK_mac End: £3,563.17
20:20 LWK_mac Paypal Start: £43.76
20:20 LWK_mac Paypal End: £43.76
20:20 LWK_mac Cash Start balance: £472.24
20:20 LWK_mac Cash In: £238.02
20:20 LWK_mac Cash Out: £304.68
20:20 LWK_mac Cash End: £405.58
20:20 LWK_mac [edit
20:20 LWK_mac Start: 128
20:20 LWK_mac New: 10
20:20 LWK_mac Ex: 3
20:20 LWK_mac End: 135
20:20 LWK_mac Average membership due: £12.85
20:20 LWK_mac [edit
20:20 LWK_mac [edit
20:20 LWK_mac BizSpace: £1,180.08 (should have been £ 1,170.36)
20:20 LWK_mac Talk talk: £28.74
20:20 LWK_mac Insurance: £65.39
20:20 LWK_mac Loan: £208.33
20:20 LWK_mac Other: £205.58
20:20 LWK_mac [edit
20:20 LWK_mac Membership dues: £1,553.29
20:20 LWK_mac Petty Cash Deposits:
20:20 LWK_mac Workshops: £
20:20 LWK_mac Donations: £
20:20 LWK_mac Events: £
20:20 LWK_mac Pledges: £
20:20 LWK_mac Quick summary
20:20 LWK_mac Start bank balance: £3,688.28
20:20 LWK_mac Out: £1,678.40
20:20 LWK_mac In: £1,553.29
20:20 LWK_mac End: £3,563.17
20:20 LWK_mac Paypal Start: £43.76
20:20 LWK_mac Paypal End: £43.76
20:20 LWK_mac Cash Start balance: £472.24
20:20 LWK_mac Cash In: £238.02
20:20 LWK_mac Cash Out: £304.68
20:21 LWK_mac Cash End: £405.58
20:21 LWK_mac [edit
20:21 LWK_mac Start: 128
20:21 LWK_mac New: 10
20:21 LWK_mac Ex: 3
20:21 LWK_mac End: 135
20:21 LWK_mac Average membership due: £12.85
20:21 LWK_mac [edit
20:21 LWK_mac [edit
20:21 LWK_mac BizSpace: £1,180.08 (should have been £ 1,170.36)
20:21 LWK_mac Talk talk: £28.74
20:21 LWK_mac Insurance: £65.39
20:21 LWK_mac Loan: £208.33
20:21 LWK_mac Other: £205.58
20:21 LWK_mac [edit
20:21 LWK_mac Membership dues: £1,553.29
20:21 LWK_mac Petty Cash Deposits:
20:21 LWK_mac Workshops: £
20:21 LWK_mac Donations: £
20:21 LWK_mac Events: £
20:21 LWK_mac Pledges: £
20:21 Nachimir 5. Fixings, JH
20:23 Nachimir JH would like to authorise budget for nuts, bolts and screws. About £200?
20:24 Nachimir David C and Matt: £70 for comprehensive collection of nuts and bolts.
20:24 Nachimir Qtys for each size of bolt to get discount from Butlers = 500s and 1000s. Could get 40% off.
20:25 Nachimir Kate: Need nails in there too; ones we have right now are a grab bag of random bits.
20:26 Nachimir David C: Will make partly worked out list, will turn into concrete one and pass to Matt Ll and David H.
20:26 Nachimir David C suggests initial budget of £100.
20:27 Nachimir + £30 for parts draws we can label in anticipation. No objections, both carried.
20:27 Nachimir 6. Young Adult Hackers - JH.
20:27 Nachimir James has seen lawyers. Discussion on Hackspace organisers mailing list.
20:28 Nachimir Lawyer: Bad plan, will just give us worst case information. (David H: NTU action struck).
20:28 Nachimir .
20:28 Nachimir We need to make the decision ourselves.
20:29 Nachimir DETOUR INTO AOB
20:29 Nachimir Russell raises welding gas.
20:31 Nachimir Matt Lloyd gives estimated costs, 4.a-bit-p per litre, we'd get through 10 litres per minute. Russell: This is why small things are unusable, we'd go through them in minutes. Big container gives us 4000-odd litres. £94 per refill, we buy the tank. Tank cost: £160-something, comes filled.
20:32 Nachimir So, at cheapest, would cost 40-something pence per minute to weld.
20:33 Nachimir Steel wire fairly cheap, etc. Cylinder has gauge showing us amount of gas left.
20:33 Nachimir Probably wouldn't charge, but we'd need to make clear to members that welding costs about 50p a minute.
20:34 Nachimir Total expenditure: About £265. Jake: Shall we offset by one month. David C: May be additional expenses with regard to mill.
20:34 Nachimir James H: Shall we offset to January? No objections, yes.
20:35 Nachimir Russell: Ok to organise welding gas in Jan? Yes.
20:35 LWK_mac left the chat room. (Quit: Quit)
20:35 Nachimir Back to 6, Young Adult Hackers.
20:37 Nachimir Email from Russ: CRB checking not an issue anymore. Main issue is occupiers liability. Hackspace has a legal duty of care. For adults: Need to provide warning of dangers. For children (Under 18), need to be prepared for them to be less careful.
20:37 Nachimir James proposes: Lower limit of 16, chat with guardian, anyone younger has to be supervised.
20:40 Nachimir Suggestion of competency test. James H: Problems with that: We don't ask existing members to, so that would be disriminatory. Also, if someone passes test, then hurts theirself, that throw liability back on us.
20:41 Nachimir Russell: No lone working policy, no panic button. We should have something to handle emergencies and safety. Feels like there's a missing element.
20:41 Nachimir James H: I agree, most businesses have a lone working policy at least. Make sure someone knows where you are, how long you'll be, and how to contact you.
20:41 Nachimir Russell: We can probably do better than that. James: Yes, my worry with that as with most technical hackspace projects, is will it get done? Lot of bikeshedding.
20:42 Nachimir Daniel G: What about limiting hours. Kate, James: Wouldn't work, we grant 24h access. Letting them in means they can stay beyond those hours even if gatekeeper has limits.
20:43 ChickenGrylls the onus needs to be on the individual to be responsible at all times in all ways including lone working
20:44 Nachimir Waivers mentioned: James H: Unenforceable.
20:45 Nachimir Many of the things we worry about with 16 - 18 year olds we could worry about with any of our other, relatively immature members.
20:45 Nachimir Kate: So as well as member details on record, we have guardians details too. So when a kid runs around with a power saw, we can inform their guardian.
20:46 Nachimir Jake: Should maintain contact with their guardians, or at least give them an opportunity to get the same updates.
20:47 ChickenGrylls tell their parents on them? In my opinion that's a bit silly. We should trial with the existing junior applicants and see what we learn.
20:47 Nachimir David C: Cannot see how we can have under 18s doing the sort of things that the hackspace allows us to do. Power tools, machining, etc. Worries me: I was involved in theater backstage work from the age of 15, using power tools, up ladders, etc., but there were adults around all the time. Not specifically looking after me, just around. Hackspace is potentially providing space where kids can do this, but adults are not necessarily around.
20:48 ChickenGrylls and THAT is a good thing
20:48 Nachimir David C: Young rewired team were drilling some stuff, sensible, intelligent, etc., but was using the wrong type of drill bit for the material. David stepped in, helped, and that worked well. Could be aproblem that we're implying anyone who signs up can just use the bench drill.
20:49 ChickenGrylls I've seen lot of 30 year olds use the wrong drill bit
20:49 ChickenGrylls I've used the wrong things myself
20:49 ChickenGrylls it has nothing to do with age
20:50 Nachimir James H: All members should ask for help if they don't know how to use a tool. For 16 - 18, that should be emphasised. I get it, and agree, but think it's safer for them to come here: At least there's a chance of them learning to use the tools properly.
20:50 Nachimir Daniel G: Induction, crash course in health and safety or something.
20:50 ChickenGrylls I agree with James
20:51 Nachimir Kate: Every member joins for different reasons. Just have to drive home: ASK if you don't know how to use something. A physical induction for everything will last forever and a person will forget all of it.
20:51 ChickenGrylls Kate is right
20:52 Nachimir David C: We could make videos of people using tools properly. It's then "How it works, where the bits are, how to use it safely".
20:52 ChickenGrylls I would think that would take someone a very very long time
20:53 ChickenGrylls besides its the same issue. Are we saying that magically at 18 everyone knows how to do stuff? The liability is THE SAME
20:53 Nachimir Jake: Most of the tools you could do serious damage to yourself with already require an induction.
20:53 ChickenGrylls we allow under 18s on a case-by-case
20:53 Nachimir (Dominic, have you asked anyone to be your voice here? As ever, I'm busy taking minutes).
20:54 ChickenGrylls Don't worry about me. I'm getting my thoughts on the record!
20:54 ChickenGrylls I've not asked
20:54 Nachimir Kate: Need to keep under 18s away from the liquor cabinet. James: It would actually be legal for them to drink alcohol here. (We'd probably ask them not to).
20:55 Nachimir James: Need to make clear that the hackspace is an adult space, there will be swearing, drinking, etc. List of extra stuff for a board member to go through, and a list by which a board member can assess their maturity.
20:56 Nachimir Michel asks about HSE. James: We have employers duty of care to people running workshops, volunteering for anything.
20:57 Nachimir James: Any other objections? (No). Action: Kate and James H to put together documentation for this.
20:58 Nachimir Michel: What happens if this goes wrong? James: We'd review this at another board meeting. If we found we couldn't have 16 - 18 members, then we'd bring it to an end.
20:59 Nachimir Russell: Assessment should probably involve 2 board members. James: I agree.
21:00 Nachimir David C: Feasible to have a probationary period with their guardian coming with them? James: Problem is that so many parents don't give a toss about these subjects. Ones with interested parents are already coming on joint memberships.
21:01 Nachimir Russell: Could it be that membership is probabtionary until 18? James: Yes.
21:02 Nachimir Jake: If they do something silly in the first couple of visits, but what's the difference between that and them doing something silly a year in?
21:02 Nachimir Kate: Would say it's a recommendation rather than mandatory, but we ask they come in on open nights for their first few months.
21:02 Nachimir James and Kate writing up and posting to mailing list.
21:04 Nachimir AOAOB: David C: Thanks to everyone who did some work at hack the space. We have some windows covered in bubble wrap, etc. to help insulate. Expenses need to be paid. Have material left, list of jobs still to do. James H: Dominic paying expenses by weekend.
21:04 Nachimir Meeting adjourned.